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GP
Titel: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 06.11.2006, 05:17 Uhr



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Since Kanotix is based on Knoppix, I thought this would be of interest to Kanotix users. It seems Klaus Knopper is planning a new release of Knoppix for this week:

KK: I'm now aiming for next week (week of 5th of November). No promises. I always say that. Winken

http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/ ... 00008.html

Does this mean 2006-1 will turn out to be 2007-0 ?
 
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slam
Titel: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 06.11.2006, 09:19 Uhr



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Zitat:
Since Kanotix is based on Knoppix, I thought this would be of interest to Kanotix users. It seems Klaus Knopper is planning a new release of Knoppix for this week:

Untrue - Kanotix is not based on Knoppix any more since long time, but on Debian Sid. It just loosely cooperates with Mr. Knopper by exchanging knowledge and some scripts.
Greetings,
Chris

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GP
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 06:34 Uhr



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slam hat folgendes geschrieben::

Untrue - Kanotix is not based on Knoppix any more since long time, but on Debian Sid. It just loosely cooperates with Mr. Knopper by exchanging knowledge and some scripts.
Greetings,
Chris


I stand corrected! I suppose this doubling of work is the reason why Kanotix went from a biannual realease to an annual release... that is if it makes it for 2006. According to Distrowatch, the last 2005 release was on december 31st! Maybe this time it's going to be the 32nd Smilie

Seriously, I understand that in order to get a bleeding edge distro, one must ready to wait some time. Until it's ready, as it is usually claimed. But then, I would think that a distro that comes out biannually, as Knoppix, for instance, is likely to be a few months ahead of an annual distro that has been released six months earlier. At times, one could end up being more bleeding edge with a less bleeding edge distro!

Yes, this is getting confusing, but you must understand that waiting for a stable unstable release is confusing too. Of course, Sid will soon move to testing, so it should be more stable. But will it be OK for bleeding edge Kanotix by then?

Development is getting hard to follow! Only for people not really involved in the process like me, of course.

Have fun, guys! Meanwhile, I'll test Knoppix. If the printer problem is solved, it shouldn't be too bad. I might install it or wait for Etch. To my very own liking, Kanotix is getting too slowly to bleeding edge. But hey, that's just me.
 
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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 07:41 Uhr



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Install and just d-u each day. You can't get more up-to-date than that. Etch will always be months behind. Knoppix still appears to be a major problem if it is installed. If you just want a LiveCd for fixing problems, whether it's up-to-date or not doesn't matter.

drb

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piper
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 14:29 Uhr
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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::


I stand corrected!


LOL

How do you figure that ?



How "testing" works

The "testing" distribution is an automatically generated distribution. It is generated from the "unstable" distribution by a set of scripts which attempt to move over packages which are reasonably likely to lack important bugs. They do so in a way that ensures that dependencies of other packages in testing are always satisfiable.

A (particular version of a) package will move into testing when it satisfies all of the following criteria:

1. It must have been in unstable for 10, 5 or 2 days, depending on the urgency of the upload;
2. It must be compiled and up to date on all architectures it has previously been compiled for in unstable;
3. It must have fewer release-critical bugs than, or the same number as, the version currently in "testing"
4. All of its dependencies must either be satisfiable by packages already in "testing", or be satisfiable by the group of packages which are going to be installed at the same time;
5. The operation of installing the package into "testing" must not break any packages currently in "testing".

A package which satisfies the first three of the above is said to be a Valid Candidate.

The update script shows when each package might move from "unstable" into "testing". The output is twofold:

* The update excuses: list of all candidate package versions and the basic status of their propagation into "testing"; this is somewhat shorter and nicer than
* The update output: the complete, rather crude output of the "testing" scripts as they recurse through the candidates


How "unstable" works

This distribution will never get released; instead, packages from it will propagate into testing and then into a real release.
"sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!

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GP
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 19:10 Uhr



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drb hat folgendes geschrieben::
Etch will always be months behind.

Who cares?

drb hat folgendes geschrieben::
Knoppix still appears to be a major problem if it is installed.

Who says?
 
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GP
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 19:16 Uhr



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piper hat folgendes geschrieben::

How "unstable" works

This distribution will never get released; instead, packages from it will propagate into testing and then into a real release.
"sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!


That's why I figure it would be better if Kanotix was mainly based on Etch. Too much time is lost trying to fix things that the whole Debian community cannot fix at once.

New packages move from unstable to testing every day. That might not be bleeding edge, but it's edgy enough for me, mainly that Kanotix would be released more often.
 
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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 19:53 Uhr



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GP - only answering your questions.

You want etch, then get it. If you want a 'bleeding edge' distro - debian unstable (e.g. Kanotix) but you run the risk of problems. (My 2005-04 installation is still fine (with a little help from this forum on the way).

Knoppix install problems - who says? Their moderator - just look at the problems people have and the usual response - Knoppix is a LiveCD not suited to HDD installation - if you want to install, go for another distro.

Typical response ftom Knoppix moderator :

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25863

drb

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GP
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 20:58 Uhr



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drb hat folgendes geschrieben::
You want etch, then get it. If you want a 'bleeding edge' distro - debian unstable (e.g. Kanotix) but you run the risk of problems. (My 2005-04 installation is still fine (with a little help from this forum on the way).


The question is not what "I" want, it's what people want. I don't believe people in general will want to wait so long to be bleeding edge for a short moment. Waiting for unstable to be stable just doesn't make sense.

drb hat folgendes geschrieben::
Knoppix install problems - who says? Their moderator - just look at the problems people have and the usual response - Knoppix is a LiveCD not suited to HDD installation - if you want to install, go for another distro.

Typical response ftom Knoppix moderator :

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25863


The OP is completely clueless. He's trying to install a version of Knoppix that's almost 3 years old. It really looks like a troll. I understand the moderator wanting to get rid of him ASAP.
 
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hey_ian
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 22:18 Uhr



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drb hat folgendes geschrieben::

Knoppix is a LiveCD not suited to HDD installation - if you want to install, go for another distro.


Yeah. This is the matter of fact.

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piper
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 23:14 Uhr
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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
piper hat folgendes geschrieben::

How "unstable" works

This distribution will never get released; instead, packages from it will propagate into testing and then into a real release.
"sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!


That's why I figure it would be better if Kanotix was mainly based on Etch. Too much time is lost trying to fix things that the whole Debian community cannot fix at once.

New packages move from unstable to testing every day. That might not be bleeding edge, but it's edgy enough for me, mainly that Kanotix would be released more often.


The reason why YOU don't figure period is because you are NOT a DEV for Kanotix, Etch will be like Sarge, old & out of date 2 months after it's release and Kanotix will keep on ticking as "Bleeding Edge"

GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
Too much time is lost trying to fix things that the whole Debian community cannot fix at once.


I personally can't remember a major problem so drastic or time consuming as you put it.

http://kanotix.com/module-News.html




It looks like SID is not for you. There are many distro's out there, but I (and what many other people want) is a stable, bleeding edge technology that comes with KANOTIX

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piper
Titel: RE: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 07.11.2006, 23:28 Uhr
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GP

Sep 21, 2006 - 03:50 PM

Maybe people figure it might just be another flash in the pan that will never be released, just as the Easter RC4 release, because unstable will never be stable enough to be released.

I suppose what I say will not be considered very kind, but I looks like a fact to me. Attempting to achieve a distro with the bleediest edge is all very fine... if it ever gets released.

Just my 2 cents. I won't insist.

GP

Kanotix is dead. Please, prove me wrong.

Aug 01, 2006 - 11:08 PM

GP

Aug 02, 2006 - 07:16 PM

It makes the Kanotix development team look like amateurs

GP

Aug 05, 2006 - 03:55 PM

I believe you should give some attention to what I'm suggesting

For certainly 99.9% of the present Kanotix users, it certainly would be preferable it Kanotix was based on testing (Etch). Even this would require close examination! If you want to have a distro that pleases most people, the only way to do it is release regularly every six months with what works at the time.

Aug 02, 2006 - 07:16 PM


Kano wrote:
There will never be a final Easter release. We skip that...

You skipped that? First news.

Listen, I'm a troll, a whiner and er.... what is it? yeah, a flamer. Whereas it seems I hate you for some unknown reason, everybody here loves you, whatever you do. There's a RC-4, then, almost three months later, the final release is declared "skipped", people say it's fine. Nobody has any idea what comes after a skipped final release, but it's fine. Who cares?

I believe you should have some kind of release scheme, and/or maybe just a changelog, like Volkerding, and stick to it.

You're the boss, you do what you want.




ENOUGH

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GP
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 04:46 Uhr



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piper hat folgendes geschrieben::


The reason why YOU don't figure period is because you are NOT a DEV for Kanotix, Etch will be like Sarge, old & out of date 2 months after it's release and Kanotix will keep on ticking as "Bleeding Edge"


Many people are not Kanotix developers and wonder why new releases are announced to finally never be released. They wonder why suddenly everything is lagging behind.

Your opinion is that Kanotix is for the happy few who won't accept anything but the bleeding edge. That's not what the name Kanotix used to stand for.

Try to get the facts straight: Kanotix is dwindling on the charts. Whereas it had good chances to climb amongst the 10 first distros, it now stands at 23th at Distrowatch. Interest in Kanotix is fading since it's based on unstable instead of Knoppix. If what you people want is kill the distro, no problem, you're doing just fine!

You said it, I'm not a developer and those are just my 2 cents. You want to have no release in 2006, maybe take Debian's place for releases every 3 years, you're the headless boss. I thought that, by now, the ridicule of the situation would have become clear for everybody. If not, feel free to go ahead on your bleeding edge power trip. I will be neither the first nor the last power trip to kill a fine Linux distro.

That's final for me.
 
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GP
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 04:50 Uhr



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hey_ian hat folgendes geschrieben::
drb hat folgendes geschrieben::

Knoppix is a LiveCD not suited to HDD installation - if you want to install, go for another distro.


Yeah. This is the matter of fact.


No, it's not. I can open a Knoppix site tomorrow and that won't mean I'm running Knoppix. What are this guy's relations with KK?
 
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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 06:39 Uhr
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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
If not, feel free to go ahead on your bleeding edge power trip.
That's final for me.


Thank you, I will.

Have a nice day and don't forget to smile



What you have done in your posts, all 33 of them.

http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-search-sear ... or-GP.html

Perhaps a little cheese with your wine, or better yet, how about developing your own version of linux to suit YOUR needs, it can't be all that hard now can it be. Better yet, use windows. My last post on this topic

You may now have the last word.

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 09:22 Uhr



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And to finally bust 2 myths:

Myth #1

"Knoppix is much more popular than Kanotix in general!"

Bust #1: Well, that is true at the moment at Distrowatch, but changes very fast with every release, and is also a very small and not representative sample.

Myth #2

"Kanotix' popularity is rapidly decreasing since last release!"

Bust #2: Please see serious numbers below.

More stats here.

I will not comment on GP's ongoing campaign and intentions.

Greetings,
Chris



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ugo
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 14:08 Uhr



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Hi Chris,
I think that the comparison would be more significant if you add the http://www.knoppix.net website to http://www.knopper.net. Indeed, a lot of people go to the help forums in http://www.knoppix.net that is not the official one, but it is maintained by a group of knoppix fans.
Moreover, I think that perhaps a better indicator of "popularity" is still the distrowatch ranking, because it (seems to me that it) counts just one access per day coming from a user. I feel that the data you provided are a little misleading because, probably, the "average Kanotix user" is more competent than the "average Knoppix user". I mean there are many newbees using knoppix, there are probably many persons maintaining one or more kanotix box on HD and I think that usually the latter ones read the forums more than the former ones.

This is just from the point of view of a good analysis of the data.

Ciao,
Ugo


P.S. Indeed, one of the reasons because I shifted from Knoppix to Kanotix is because I raised some questions about the HD installation to the http://www.knoppix.net forums and I've been answered (more or less): "Well, it's a long time I don't perform a Knoppix install on HD; in the meanwhile I've installed many times Debian and Kanotix"....

P.P.S. Nevertheless, I would prefer that Kanotix would be a little less perfect and a little more dynamic, but I understand that this is in contrast with the philosophy of staying on Debian Sid (and I think this is a good choice, making Kanotix different from other distros).
However, this is my 2 cents... (I don't exactly know what this means, but everybody says it...).
 
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hey_ian
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 18:25 Uhr



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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
hey_ian hat folgendes geschrieben::
drb hat folgendes geschrieben::

Knoppix is a LiveCD not suited to HDD installation - if you want to install, go for another distro.


Yeah. This is the matter of fact.


No, it's not. I can open a Knoppix site tomorrow and that won't mean I'm running Knoppix. What are this guy's relations with KK?


Knoppix was developed as a LiveCD to show people how powerful Linux is. It is not recommended for HD install. If you do not believe ask Knopper.

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acheronta.movebo
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 08.11.2006, 22:18 Uhr



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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
Interest in Kanotix is fading since it's based on unstable instead of Knoppix. If what you people want is kill the distro, no problem, you're doing just fine!


They do not. I'm a bloody rookie according to Linux. I took me three attempts to find my favorite distro. The point is not the number of releases, but the quality of the distro and its support.

If a newbie like me found his way to Kanotix, many others will also do. My 2 cents. (I also don't know what this means, but it sounds very good. Excuse my damn lousy english.)

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eco2geek
Titel: Re: New Knoppix release this week?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 06:04 Uhr



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GP hat folgendes geschrieben::
Try to get the facts straight: Kanotix is dwindling on the charts. Whereas it had good chances to climb amongst the 10 first distros, it now stands at 23th at Distrowatch. Interest in Kanotix is fading since it's based on unstable instead of Knoppix. If what you people want is kill the distro, no problem, you're doing just fine!

About those Distrowatch stats -- they're not that great of a guage of how popular any particular Linux distro is, IMO. Why would you visit a page on Distrowatch to learn about a distro? Why wouldn't you just go visit its home page? Is www.<name_of_distro>.org hard to remember? Wouldn't you use Google?

About the only time I visit a distro's page on Distrowatch is if the distro's got some weird URL that I've forgotten. Remember, Distrowatch only tracks hits on pages internal to Distrowatch, not hits on, say, mandriva.com or fedoraproject.org.

Personally, I'd love to see more frequent Kanotix releases, but since I dist-upgrade my box about every other day (and this forum posts solutions to the occasional problem that arises), and since I install packages from the Kanotix repository, I have nothing to complain about. Kano's got his reasons and his schedule.

As for all the other crap in your posts, GP, anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that if you're invited into someone's house and track mud all over the carpet, you're liable to get thrown out rather quickly.

(Why am I always late to these flame wars?)
 
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GP
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 05:21 Uhr



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hey_ian hat folgendes geschrieben::
Knoppix was developed as a LiveCD to show people how powerful Linux is. It is not recommended for HD install. If you do not believe ask Knopper.


That's indeed what Klaus used to say. First Christian Perle tried to write an install script, then a certain Fabian Franz, if I remember well. But the result, I suppose, didn't seem conclusive. Since Kanotix had gathered so much from Knoppix, Klaus decided to grab the Kanotix install script. That's what open source is all about, I believe. So, Knoppix is now probably using Kanotix's installation program from the latest 2005 release.
 
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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 07:35 Uhr



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If you read many of the posts in the Knoppix forum, the issue isn't whether it will install but the problems people have after they install and then have difficulties with dependencies as they begin to apt-get packages. The comment from the Knoppix moderator above is the stock answer to all these problems. The benefits of the Knoppix LiveDVD are that large amounts of software are available without having to install and add packages. Klik serves to fill the gap for package addition with self-contained programmes and dependant programmes.

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